No one is more aware of this than the Rev.

The interview has been edited and condensed.

Leigh Anderson:How would you propose talking to a religious and intolerant person in their own language?

James Martin:I would proposenottalking to them and actually listening to them.

Frequently these conversations are how do we talktothese people or how do we talkatthese people?

So one of the stories I like to tell people is about a gay friend of mine named Mark.

Mark was in a religious order and left.

He ended up marrying his partner, with whom hes been together for 20 years.

One of the things he has done is care for his partner through a long-term serious illness.

I often say to people, Is this not a form of love?

I just ask that question.

Frankly thats the way Jesus answered questions.

When someone asked Jesus, What is the reign of God, he didnt give them a definition.

He said, A farmer went out to sow.

Or, a woman lost a coin or a man had two sons.

And its also being respectful of people.

Definitions and arguments will just close our minds down, whereas stories open them up.

LA:So what to say to someone who says, Well, being gay is a sin?

At the very least it sounds condescendingI know your eternal life better than you do.

JM:Being LGBT is not a sin in the Catholic Church.

The catechism teaches that.

If youre an LGBT person, say, Im not sinful simply for being LGBT.

Just share that with the person.

But I tend to believe that people are open to experiences.

LA:The Church holds that the sin is actually acting on homosexual impulses?

JM:In Church teaching,anysex outside of marriage is sinful.

No one says I hate the sin, but love you as a sinner.

Very few people say that [to people in that situation].

The LGBT are the people placed under a microscope, and I think thats discriminatory.

These public changing-of-minds always seem to prompt Facebook Scripture throwdowns.

What would you say to someone who wants to have a Bible-verse argument with you about homosexuality?

JM:you gotta understand the Scripture in its historical context.

Or remember that famousDr.

Even in the New Testament they understood homosexuality in a far different way than we do today.

you better understand it in its context.

Homosexual laws seem to be the only ones that people take out of context these days.

And by the way, Jesus saidzeroabout homosexuality.

So have fun in your church of one.